The Wired Garage with Pops | Digital Innovation
The Wired Garage with Pops — the place where technology, outdoor activities, music, mixed with a few stories and a good pour of bourbon all meet.
The Wired Garage with Pops is a technology-driven podcast that blends deep IT expertise with real-world storytelling. Hosted by Pops — an enterprise architect, IT leader, and tech storyteller — the show explores how people and organizations navigate the evolving digital landscape.
Each episode dives into topics such as ServiceNow innovation, digital transformation, agentic AI, and the intersection of IT operations and business strategy. The show highlights not just the technology itself, but the human side of building, leading, and adapting in complex enterprise environments.
Listeners include IT professionals, executives, and technology enthusiasts who want practical insights and authentic stories from experts shaping the future of work and technology. Conversations are engaging, thoughtful, and often spiced with Pops’ down-to-earth humor and passion for the craft — whether that’s tech, BBQ, or leadership.
The Wired Garage with Pops | Digital Innovation
We Built a Full ServiceNow App in Minutes Using Only Prompts — Live Demo
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In this episode of The Wired Garage with Pops, Jeremy Duncan returns for round two — and this time he brings a live demo. Jeremy is a cloud platform solution architect with 15 years on the ServiceNow platform and a track record building AI-powered solutions for Fortune 500 organizations.
The conversation opens with a ground-level breakdown of vibe coding — what it actually means, why developers bristle at the term, and how it has evolved from casual prompt-and-paste experimentation into a legitimate development paradigm. Jeremy traces that evolution directly to ServiceNow's Build Agent: an LLM-powered IDE embedded in ServiceNow Studio that uses Claude Opus (via Anthropic) and the Fluent SDK to translate natural language prompts into fully functional platform applications.
Before the demo, the crew covers the broader AI landscape — the commoditization of AI capability, the lack of regulatory guardrails, the real economic pressure building behind mass adoption, and whether the TurboTax/CPA analogy actually holds when we're talking about AI replacing not one job but every white-collar job simultaneously. Jeremy is candid: he sells this capability for a living and still has serious questions about where it leads.
Then comes the demo. Starting from a single paragraph description, Jeremy uses Build Agent to create "Pirate Smoothies" — a fully realized ordering application complete with 8 custom tables, 69 columns, a mobile-friendly customer portal, an inventory management workspace, ACLs, roles, a business rule, a Domino's-style order status tracker, and sample data. All of it built live, on camera, in roughly 25–30 minutes.
The episode closes with a clear-eyed conversation about what this means for developers, architects, ServiceNow partners, and the organizations investing in the platform: Build Agent is a speed multiplier, not a replacement for platform knowledge — and prompt engineering is the skill that separates the builders who thrive from those who just vibe.
KEY TAKEAWAYS
- Build Agent is not vibe coding — it's an LLM-powered IDE (Claude Opus + Fluent SDK) that understands the ServiceNow platform and builds within its guardrails, not around them.
- Prompt engineering is the skill of the 21st century. The more specific and structured your prompt, the closer the output is to what you actually need — this doesn't go away with more powerful AI.
- Build Agent can take a plain English description and produce a complete application — tables, columns, roles, ACLs, portal, workspace, workflows, and sample data — in 25–30 minutes.
- Platform knowledge still matters. CIOs are going to want people who understand how to build, not just people who can prompt. Build Agent accelerates skilled builders; it doesn't replace them.
- Now Assist is a family of capabilities — virtual agent, skills, agents, spoke generator, and Build Agent — not a single tool. Understanding the distinctions is critical for architects and product owners.
- The real opportunity for most organizations is the backlog. Build Agent gives teams a legitimate path to clearing ideas and requests that have sat unbuilt for years due to dev capacity.
- Guardrails matter. Build Agent should go through technical governance, licensing considerations for assist consumption should be understood, and organizations should establish prompt standards before giving teams open access.
- The platform-vs.-DIY debate isn't going away. Jeremy's position: shared responsibility, regulatory compliance, data security, and architectural accountability are reasons organizations keep paying for platforms like ServiceNow even as standalone AI becomes more powerful.
KEYWORDS
ServiceNow Build Agent, ServiceNow AI coding, Now Assist, vibe coding ServiceNow, ServiceNow app development, ServiceNow studio IDE, ServiceNow Claude AI, AI platform development, prompt engineering, LLM in enterprise, agentic AI, AI automation, Fluent SDK, Claude Opus, low code no code, future of developers, AI regulation, AI ethics, ServiceNow Now LLM, citizen development, #ServiceNow, #BuildAgent, #NowAssist, #AI, #VibeCoding, #PromptEngineering, #FutureOfWork, #Automation, #PlatformDevelopment, #WiredGarage, #AIcoding, #LLM, #TechPodcast, #CloudArchitect
If you're building on ServiceNow — or you manage a team that does — this is one you need to share. Send it to your architect, your product owner, your admin who's been grinding through that backlog. Build Agent changes the conversation, and the more people in your org understand it, the faster you move. Hit subscribe so you don't miss what's coming next — and go back and listen to Round 1 with Jeremy if you haven't. Those two episodes together tell the complete story.
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🎙️ Missed Round 1 with Jeremy? Go listen — link below.
I mean, when you have a a platform like this and there are lots of great examples of this out there, the world's your oyster and all your ideas that you wish you would have come up with and and built, like you you can you can go do it now. And for all the organizations that that use us, you know, I would encourage you to get into that backlog and see how much fun you can have getting through it faster and uh making your customers happy and really realizing the the value of the platform because I've said this many times that to customers, again, I've been on the platform 15 years and I was that customer saying, This is so expensive. But the the the comment was, and it's true, and I believe it, I just didn't drink the Kool-Aid, is that the more you utilize the platform, the better value you get out of it.
SPEAKER_00All right, Wired Garage Family, buckle up because we've got a fake fan favorite back in the building. You already know him, you've already seen him before on the on the podcast. You love the first conversation. He's cloud architect, Fortune 500 problem solver, green glowing shoes and all. Jeremy Duncan's back. So, Jeremy, welcome to our modest garage. Hey, thanks for having me back, guys.
SPEAKER_02Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01Back, Jeremy. It's good to have you here. So today is an under-the-hood episode for us, and we're gonna peel back some of the curtain and we're gonna get a little bit of a demo of ServiceNow's answer to AI coding. But before we do that, let's get some context, shall we?
SPEAKER_00Sounds good. All right, so let's set the table for anyone who missed a memo. What is vibe coding and why is everyone suddenly talking?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it and vibe coding, I will say, is an interesting term. It's kind of got a negative connotation with uh with developers and the likes. You know, when generative AI made its debut a couple of years ago, this idea of natural language understanding like grew new legs and then built its own rocket ship and then took off to space, right? And left us behind. Vive coding was basically using the a large language model to help you code faster, right? And the back in the day, I'm I can say that now because it feels like it was years ago. But back in the day, you'd have to call your geek, you know, developer and say, Hey, can you write me this code? And now with a well-structured prompt, which is, you know, I'll I'll put an asterisk beside the word prompt. I've been saying this for two years since I've saw my first Gen AI demo, is that prompt engineering is is the skill of the 21st century. But with a well-structured prompt, I mean, you can get back the results that you need. So whether you're on ServiceNow and say, hey, I need a glide record query for this table, you can be specific or you can say, Hey, I need to just search the incident table and here are the parameters I need, and it's going to write, you know, the query for you. So whether it's that, JavaScript, right, it do it really doesn't matter. You've got a basically an army of developers at your fingertips that can help you. The reason it's you know got that vibe coding term is because you're you're kind of vibing. It's not, there's no your real structure to it. If you're not a developer and you don't think like a developer, you kind of have to you have to set coding aside and say, I'm not a coder, I'm not a programmer developer, I'm just vibe coding. And so again, uh it got a it's kind of a negative connotation, to be honest with you. I will say where Build Agent started last year and where it is today, June 16th, 2026, is it's a it's a an LLM powered IDE, you know, is is a true IDE. Back in the day, again, back in the days it's literally not long ago, but you Visual Studio, you pop open Visual Studio, and if you knew what you're doing, you could get in some trouble, right? You could do some cool stuff. Now you've got Visual Studio with Claude code and um with again an LLM, whatever your poison is, you can do a lot of things. And so I would say the vibe coding is great. I think it's good. I think it's transitioned from folks that think like developers and architects to a kind of a new standard for building applications.
SPEAKER_01So you touched upon this a little bit. When we were at knowledge last year, ServiceNow demoed some now assist AI coding capability where you put in a comment and it would generate kind of that text. But with what you just said here, it sounds like it's a completely different scope, it's a different scale. It can do a variety of different things, and it sounds like we're we're far past that. You can now get an entire application, would you say?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for sure. I mean, now assist is still an LLM backed, there's several different facets to Now Assist, right? And our marketing team has had fun with this. Uh, but now assist is is the generative AI capability on platform, right? And so whether you're in virtual agent chat, which used to be NLU, right? Now it's now, the LLM that powers that is the now LLM. All right. And I'll be honest with you, like I kind of wish that's the lane that we we stayed in. I I'm not disparaging what we're doing. I think what we're doing is necessary and needed. But I think what's happened is, and and I, and I just blame the speed of AI for doing this, but the now LLM is super powerful because it runs on your platform and it's based on anything that you put in the platform that you've trained the LLM on, right? And when we started, so the first generative AI experience that I built in 2024 for knowledge was very simple. I mean, it would pull back like the top five results based on your prompt or your utterance. And you know, you ask it a question like, hey, what time is the keynote today? Right. And if I had 10 knowledge articles that talked about the keynote, it would pull the top five relevant articles that it thought and it would write an answer back. And it would write it in your language. It would say, Hey, Jeremy, you know, the keynotes, it would be personable, right? And you could train, you could tune the LLM to be, you know, speak in in different ways to you, right? Be proper, whether it's proper or more professional, or maybe I want slang terms, whatever, right? So you could put some personality there. So that's the virtual agent side of Now Assist. But then you have Now Assist skills, part of the Nal Assist skill kit that you could basically enact in a workspace, or I'll give an example of a loan origination application I built for a commercial banking uh commercial bank, I guess. Well, I'll just leave it at that. I don't want to reveal who they are. So they basically wanted to help speed up the the loan funding process. And I said, well, what if I told you that I could build a skill? All right. And this is right in the heyday of when agents were starting to be promoted and built. Um, and I'll get into that in just a second. But the skills are basically you writing a prompt, right? You're giving instruction. We know it in nowadays is like an MD file, like you're giving it some instruction, right? So you've written a prompt, a well-structured prompt that you're telling the the LLM what it needs to do. Okay. And so if you build a skill that says, hey, you're an expert loan origination officer. Your job is to understand this standard operating procedure and you can reference a knowledge-based article or maybe knowledge base articles and say, educate yourself on this. This is our process. This is this is the Bible for you. This is what you need to know. And then the decisions you make from here on out, right, will be based on that. Well, when you talk about skills, I kind of dipped over into agents. But when you talk about a skill, that's a specific thing that you kind of wanted to do. So what I built in a workspace environment was a UI action that said, okay, click this button to summarize this loan. All right. And so what it would do is it would call on all the information that we already had in the record. So you we had credit score from Experian. We had Lexus Nexus data uh for bankruptcies, any any kind of negative things about the business, anything Lexus Nexus could pull. And then we also had a five serve integration, right? And by the way, we built all three of those integrations using NalAssist on the on, it's called code assist, basically uh building uh APIs using our spoke generator, which uses Nal Assist as well. I can get into that in a minute, but I don't want to digress. So you click the button and the skill is written and it's and it's basically has instructions that says here's what you need to know about the loan procedure. And based on the information that you see, help make that decision, right? Do we need to move forward with the loan? Do we need to take a step back and pause? And that's really what that bank was ready for. And a lot of, I don't want to say most, but a lot of customers, that's the level of AI that they're ready for. But because the power of agents are there, now you have a gentic AI where you have a persona and it could be a team, a person, it could be a team of persons, of people. So you have an agent workflow with agents. Those agents have tools, which could be a skill, it could be an integration, it could be many different things. So, so then if you're wanting to go to the next step, you're like, hey, I've got some skills, I've got humans still clicking buttons. Now they're moving super fast, right? That used to take them 20 minutes to review this loan package and go click here and open that file and look here and then make a decision. Why do I need that when I have the computing power, right? GPUs behind me helping me make these decisions, and I have a large language model that just understands the procedure and can communicate back to them what they need to do. So now you take it a step further and you build agents to do that. So ServiceNow is moving at light, light speed and giving capabilities to really all personas on the platform. And it's really hard to keep up. And it's been, I'll be honest, depressing at times because of how things, how fast things are moving and and how and to keep up with how you know how things are built and and how to engage and interact. But I will tell you, like our topic today is build agent. The beauty is that now assist is powering that build agent experience. And that's where the world of service now focused understanding from a large language model perspective comes together and meets the world of Claude, right? And we use Opus is the latest. We started with Sonnet, and now we're using Opus for that. But I can kind of get into the context of what build agent's doing once we get into demonstrating the product.
SPEAKER_00So this is sitting on a roadmap, right? So it's available right now on, you know, really on a free PDI for some. Um what does it mean that the service now ships this to everyone before the conversation was even ready?
SPEAKER_02Well, I again I think it's it's the nature of where we're at. You can't, you there's there's no waiting, right? The cat's out of the bag. When you when you say, well, I'll give a for instance, if anybody's kept up with a fable and mythos, I don't know if you've launched Claude lately, but it says fable five is unavailable, do some research and figure out why that's unavailable.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's because there's well, A, there's no regulation. And when there's no regulation, and and listen, I'm a good old Southern boy. I'm not all into the federal government getting into my business, but I will tell you this without regulation, you put power into humans' hands, we're gonna run with it. And what's happened is companies everywhere that are worth their weight and salt have invested in AI. Our CEO, Bill McDermott, God love him, that guy, you know, he heard he saw the writing on the wall. I mean, the moment this stuff hit the street, he's in CI CEO's offices and, you know, all the C-suite and hearing them talk about how they're, you know, shifting large percentages of their budgets into investing in AI, right? And and right now it's commoditized to the point, guys. I don't know how much you use Chat GPT. I've posted about this on LinkedIn. Shameless plug, follow me on LinkedIn. I've I throw some random stuff out there. But my thoughts about like how as a society we're devaluing human currency to the point where we're like, hey, we'll just get agents to build it. And look, I'm I'm selling it, like I'm selling the capability. I want people using this, but I also feel like people need to pay for it. And and companies like OpenAI, like Anthropic, they're giving it away, right? I pay $21.95 a month for for Chat GPT premium or whatever level it is, and I get far, I get at least 10x the value out of that every month. So would I be willing to pay $200 a month for my subscription? Absolutely. Don't tell OpenAI that, but they know and they know that that the value I'm getting is probably around $400 on average dollars a month, right? And and I've done some kind of monkey math on that. But when we talk about it, so I don't think Service Now did anything wrong. I don't think any company that's put this power out there in their customers' fingertips has done anything wrong because they're all competing for for the for the market share. I just think without regular this this is bigger than ServiceNow. This is the the world we live in. And it's more of a regulatory like, how much are we allowed to do and run with this? And how many jobs are we allowed to let go? How many staff reductions are we gonna allow until we realize the impacts on the economy before we go, okay, wait a minute. The power is there, let's let's utilize it, let's do really good with it, but you got to pay the piper. Like you get if you want something that's that's that valuable, then you got to pay for it. And right now it's it's heavily commoditized. And I think, I think you're seeing that change. If you watched anything on LinkedIn, anything on the news, people complaining about, oh, my bill was $10,000 this month. It's like, well, add up how much it would have cost you to have a team of developers and a and a product designer and uh look at how many people it takes to build a full stack app. I mean, I could there are people saying, hey, I put my first app in the iOS store. I'm like, I didn't know you're an iOS developer. I knew what the answer was about to be. It's like, oh, Claude. And it's like, if you think about it, who cares if if your bill's 10 grand, then now you know what it costs to build an iOS app, right? And it's probably and it should be, in my opinion, more expensive than it would have cost you with a human because the speed at which you're getting to market with this stuff, the speed at which you're building, there's a value, there should be a premium put on that. And right now, it's like people have passed out the free drugs, you know, get your free sniff. The next, you know, you're that's your free taste. But after that, it's gonna cost you. And and so again, it's not just a ServiceNow thing. It's every walk of life, every company that's investing in AI is they're all going through the same thing.
SPEAKER_01Kind of my take on that, not yeah, I guess kind of on both sides. So I think the value in having the capability there, because the cat is out of the bag, ServiceNow lets you try it on the platform with the build agent trial. So you you can try it out and get familiar with it and test it. And on the other side, yes, I do think that like everything we do as humans, we are clunky, we are immature, and we grow towards maturity and we start to figure out and understand what what does this mean to have this capability? What does the speed mean to be able to have the speed? And I think there's still, at least what I've observed so far, it is enabling folks who did not have the capability capability to do something to be able to figure a thing out. Not to simplify like a calculator, but I'm not that great at math. And God knows if I didn't have a calculator or something that could tell me what the answer was, oh man, that would be a struggle. Um, but luckily I've got a tool for that. And being able to see folks who were struggling, they they had the thought process, they knew the problem, they're very intimate with the problem domain, but just not able to translate that into the exact proper syntax syntax to solve the problem. And they're able to go into something like a cloud or build agent and work with that to develop a solution that solves the problem. I mean, that is happy path, but I think that is amazing. And I think we've got to figure out what the balance is because it's also, I mean, there's trade-offs, there's not everything uh is not all sunshine and rainbows. I think the more you use these tools, the more you understand kind of where the the edge is of utility and where you've gotta pay attention.
SPEAKER_02But there's I I would argue though that I'm sorry to cut you off, but I I think I would argue though, if it continues to be so cheap, people won't, they're gonna continue to stretch the limits, right?
SPEAKER_01I think there's yeah, I don't think that it can stay this way. You have all this investment. I I think the investment in the capital outlay is so far ahead. Eventually that's gonna catch up.
SPEAKER_02I think right now if so many people have lost their jobs. I I saw a post on LinkedIn, this girl, well, it was a repeat, like people reposted this meme, and the meme was like, hey geniuses, if uh 90% of the world's lost their jobs, then what are you who are you selling to? Right, right. You know, and and honestly, man, they that I've heard people alike in this to the use of the calculator, but I'm gonna go a step further and talk about CPAs. Who thought that went in into it, created or got turbo when turbotax came to the market that CPAs would be out of business? Now, if we if we did an analysis, we would probably say or look back, we'd probably say some some CPAs probably lost their job, right? They had to go find something else to do. But I will tell you right now, I did my taxes in TurboTax this year just to get an idea of where I was standing, just to kind of it's kind of a trust thing with my CPA. And then I took my taxes to my CPA. So turbotax had me owing about 3,500 bucks. My CPA had me with a uh multi-thousand dollar return. I mean, not not exorbitant where I was like, dude, you're gonna get me audited.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_02But like, but my point is he knows some things and he's gonna ask the questions and he's gonna look at things through a lens where maybe the software has its limits. Maybe it's maybe it's risk averse and it's not gonna take that next, hey, but that's actually a write-off. Technique, you know, it's it's gray, but that's a write-off, right? And here's the rule and here's how we'll defend this. And so my natural instinct is I'm gonna go take it to a certified professional who's also signing my tax return with me, right? He's sending that off. His name is is on it. So if I get audited, he's gonna be involved. So there's some ownership. So when I look at, you know, the people talk about SaaS pocalypse and and I call it, you know, I've been saying is is it a past apocalypse too for platforms as a service? Because ServiceNow is not software as a service. We offer software as a service, but we are a true platform. So I've listened to financial analysts, I've listened to customers of mine who have access to people that are super smart and know the and and have already looked at this stuff, and they all kind of chuckle. It's like it's not going away. Sure, smaller companies are gonna struggle. And if you're just a one product company, well, somebody else is probably gonna build that in a minute, you know, wake up tomorrow and there's gonna be another version of it. So we're gonna have a lot of slop, we're gonna have a lot of stuff in the market that people are gonna have to sift through. But what are people naturally gonna do? They're gonna pass their risk on to someone else who's an expert in this area. And so why would I, if I owned a very large company, why would I say, we're just gonna pay the millions of dollars it's gonna cost for anthropic, we're gonna empower all of our engineers and they're just gonna build everything for us. We don't need a platform. Why do we need to overpay for a platform? My argument there is, is because they own the platform that your data and your workflow and your apps sit on, and there's some shared responsibility in making sure that those apps are up and working and they give you guardrails to work within. And so to me, natural human instinct is gonna be that, hey, we'll we're okay with paying for that risk. Like we we want to work with this together instead of just saying, hey, we're gonna now again, there are customers, and I've heard the stories that are making the choice to just, hey, no, we're good, we're gonna move on. I'm proud to say that there are the I've seen a few of those that have reversed course and said, hey, we're getting off service now and now we're right back on it. All right. We're here with open arms, welcome them, well, welcoming them. And it's not that it's not possible. Don't hear me wrong. I'm not saying you can't go build your dreams because people are proving that every single day. The problem is that you got some guy who's good with claw code, halfway decent developer, that goes, I had this cool idea and I built this thing. Then you start asking the hard questions like, okay, cool. Is it encrypted? Is the data encrypted at rest? Is it, hey, what are the you start asking true architectural questions and and things that matter, especially in a regular regulatory industry. The answers are gonna be a clawed response. And then they're gonna figure out how to go harden it and make it make it better. So then they're catching up, right? So I mean, we could talk about this for days, a lot of thoughts on it, but it's I think all I can say is buckle up because we are in such a crazy time right now, and and it's and it's invigorating, it's fun. It feels like a I imagine it's how they felt when they realized they didn't have to ride horses anymore and they could just get a motorized vehicle and drive places. But at the same time, vehicles didn't take people's livelihood, it took away the horse, the need. For the horse, but a horse just now roams in a pasture and people ride them for leisure. They don't require, but you and I are not horses. We're different. And so that it feels different, and it's hard to relate it back to the simple turbotax example because I have my doubts with that. Although I believe in that wholeheartedly, I but I do have some doubts. I think there are some cracks in that analogy simply because we're not talking about one piece of software that has one job. We're talking about every single function that's out there, it seems like, at least in a white-collar job, like in a professional services job, there's there's danger in their people's jobs. They're worried about losing their jobs because artificial intelligence is going to take over. And when Elon's done building all his robots, who's going to need an H VAC repair man when the robot's going to drive up and and get out and fix you know what I'm saying? Like crazy, but I I definitely get it.
SPEAKER_01And maybe we'll we'll see the truth somewhere in the middle, and time will tell on that. I do like that analogy of the CPA though, where you have somebody who does that have that accountability and that responsibility. And I think that's the thing, at least from an operating model, maybe we'll look to is some level of accountability to figure out all right, we don't necessarily know what the future looks like. We've got some signals right now. I think we we go through, we have to have that conversation. And it's not something where we set it and forget it, but we work through it as the future adapts and that there's some accountability. But without going on too much more of a tangent, you did set us up nicely on some of the capabilities for build agents. And I was wondering, is there anything that you could show us or maybe a demo of what this capability looks like and what it's capable of?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So just a disclaimer here two quick things. One is uh this instance is on Zurich patch seven, I believe. Um, you know, we're already in Australia. I know a lot of our customers are probably still on Zurich. I know we have some pioneers out there that are doing already on Australia. I'm proud of you for not having to be in minus two and get in trouble. So let's jump in and screen and let's go over here. We are in a demo environment. Anything can happen. This is not a PDI, this is my employee instance. So I won't run out of tokens during this. So, or not tokens, but assists. In your PDI, you will be limited on the number of assists. So you'll get to play around, you'll get a taste, but you're not gonna go crazy and build uh a stock trading app of you know, full stack with all the features uh in a PDI. So um let's let's start with a few things. Um for those of you who are ServiceNow experts. Um we have Creator Studio, used to be called App Engine Studio, where you can go in and kind of get a guided, you know, path for building apps for some people, even like myself, who like to kind of iterate through it. I like to step through it. I want to build my tables, I want to build my roles, I want to build my workflows and things like that. Like I I still like that approach to a certain degree. Then we've got ServiceNow Studio, which now has build agent embedded, right? And then we also have IDE. So if if you were to think back a few releases or a couple releases ago, um, you would have to go into the IDE and build this. You'd have to build using build agent in the IDE that's now available in studio. Okay. The two main differences between studio and IDE, though, uh, for all of you Git users and and who care and who really security-minded folks who need OAuth 2.0, you cannot promote with Git using OAuth 2.0 in studio today. You can do it in ID studio IDE. So you can still build and build agent and do it in the IDE experience, but OAuth 2.0 is not available in this uh in this frame here. Okay. So as I mentioned before, build agent is using Claude Opus. Right now I'm on 4.6. That may have changed it with uh a newer release of build agent. So disclaimer, whatever you want to call it, safe harbor. Instead of being ahead of the times, I'm a little bit behind the times with this instance. So things may look different in yours. So just just know that. Uh but but we're gonna get through the concepts today, anyways. So we talked about now assist, we talked about the now LLM, and and what you're seeing here is Claude, right? That's anthropics, large language model, Opus 4.6. I also mentioned earlier Mythos and Fable. You will not see those down there, no worries. Or I'm sorry for those of you who want that kind of processing power, but you're gonna have Opus. Um the way this works, when you talk to build agent or now assist and you tell it what you want, it's using Claude to help summarize what you want and can even give input into what you want. So for instance, if I said, and I'm gonna let you guys pick the example, okay, of what we're gonna build. If I'm vague about what I want to build or even specific to a point where, like, if I said, hey, I want to build a loan origination application for a mid-sized bank in this region, well, it's gonna go on try to understand what you want, right? It's gonna look at what it needs, and that's what it's using Claude to do. Okay. And then once you get into, okay, you're gonna need this type of table or these type of tables. You'll probably need this type of workflow, you'll probably need this, you'll probably need that. It starts to understand what you need to build an application, and and then what it does is it uses Fluent. Okay, that's a that's the translation right back to our SDK so that it knows what to build. Okay. Clawed is not where that lives. So for the people who are connecting via MCP into service now and using clawed code, just keep in mind you're not getting the power of build agent with Fluent by doing that. You essentially have to um hook into the SDK or find other magic ways to build your own instruction files. And there are people out there, my good buddy Nick over at Happy Technologies, they've got open source projects where they're doing things like that, right? And enabling and empowering builders who just want to be in their own IDE. And we support that. Bring your own IDE, that's okay. But there is power in build agent that's different, and that's where it understands either what's already on platform and already built. So understanding what it's already created for you. So, like if you get midway through the application and maybe you want to change gears or things like that, like change the direction, it has all that inference, it has all the understanding. So there is benefit of using build agent. I try to remind people of that. Again, that's where marketing in the world is far ahead of the engineering and the reality. Um, yes, we you can again bring your own IDE, but but we encourage folks that are building on platform to stick in this interface. Okay. So let's start with what do we want to like? So, what do we want to build? You know, I I know you're red, you know, I know where you work, and I and I know the two different organizations. So I mean, let's what do you want to do?
SPEAKER_01I I'm not trying to break uh this is already a live demo, and I don't know how the demo gods are. I am thirsty, and I know it might not be the most impressive example, and feel free to overrule it. Uh, but what about like some kind of smoothie delivery service where I can request a smoothie and maybe I've got like three different store locations that I could order it from or something.
SPEAKER_03I I don't know.
SPEAKER_02All right. Brian, you got any other ideas?
SPEAKER_03I'm good with that.
SPEAKER_02You're good with that. Okay. All right. So we have a few options in Build Agent. We can either create an application, update an application, create a file, or update a file. I believe that. Yeah. So obviously we're gonna create an application. So it's gonna go through an interview process. It's gonna get a little information. You could just start banging out. Hey, I want this, and it's fine. You don't have to click the button. It's smart enough. And let's hope the demo gods are gonna work with me tonight. All right. Happy, happy to help you build a ServiceNow application. By the way, for those, for those who are who are new to large language models, that type of response is a part of its instruction. So we talk, you know, we think artificial intelligence is just, oh, it's just magic that's happening. No, there are people, there are people who have built and continue to build. And that's what I'm saying. The future in AI is behind the scenes, making sure prompt engineering is like you just gotta be there. Like you gotta know it. And the more you know it, the better off you're gonna be. So uh, anyways, we won't we won't pick it all apart. So, what would you like to name the application and what is the purpose of the application? So, what's the name?
SPEAKER_01Uh, we'll name it pirate smoothies unless you can think of something else.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Anyway, clever name. Uh, let's do pirate smoothies and the and the idea for the application is to um all right, give me your description again.
SPEAKER_01All right, so this application should allow me to order a variety of smoothies from a couple different locations and I could order it for now or I could schedule it for a future time. Okay. We'll we'll give it some flavor there, fun intended. So I think just for uh comparison here, you're not opening up catalog item forms, you're not hitting scripting or coding screens, you you don't have UI policies, you're not creating variables, you are describing your use case to this build agent. Yep. And I am absolutely definitely a fan of Dutch Brothers.
SPEAKER_02So again, think you gotta think like as someone who builds applications. Uh obviously, the more the more you give instruction, the more in line with it it's gonna be. So interacting with Chat GPT or any large language model, it's not a search engine. I love you know seeing the articles like, oh, it's not Google. You're right. I mean, you can ask Google a question and it's gonna give you an answer. I could ask this a question and it'll give me an answer. By the way, build agent is not just for building. If you have a question like, hey, where does this file exist, or I'm having trouble finding this table, and here's what the the file or here's what this table that I'm looking for does or houses, it finds it'll help you. And it'll also help you understand um what it can and can't do. So there was a point at which I was not up to date with the latest um now assist for creator plug-in, and it didn't have the ability to do workspace UIs. And I didn't know that until I got midway through building the application and it built me a UI page, and I was like, no, no, no, no. I want a workspace, I know you can do it. And it's like, well, I can't do that. Um I don't have the instructions to do that. Well, update to the latest and it knows, right? So you can even start by asking it what it can do and get some information there. It's pretty cool. Um but I'm gonna act like I know what it's gonna do. So the name is Pirate Smoothies, and the idea for the application is allowed customers.
SPEAKER_03I'm gonna even be a little more verbose here is is to for the application is much like what you would experience with the Dutch Bros or Starbucks application, right?
SPEAKER_02Our need is to allow customers to order a variety of smoothies from different locations, like the customers have the ability to request a specific pickup time. And I said, make sure it's divided into 15-minute intervals, because if you said, hey, I want my smoothie at 8 07 a.m., that's a little specific, right? Give your give your crew some time to catch up, right? So do 15-minute intervals. Uh I can take this out. I'd like both a front-end experience and would also like a workspace experience to allow, and I would say front-end portal experience.
SPEAKER_03Make sure it is mobile friendly.
SPEAKER_02I would also like a workspace experience to allow our inventory specialists to be able to keep up with stocks and supplies. I would also like for you to create sample data for all tables that you intend to create for this application so that we can test it. All right. Anything else you think I'm missing?
SPEAKER_01I think that looks great.
SPEAKER_03If you feel uh like I am missing any core components needed uh for my application, uh feel free to suggest as we go. All right.
SPEAKER_02And by the way, you also could upload. So let's do this. Take an image of the Dutch Bros ordering application. All right, this is where you can get creative, right? So we're gonna go here and go here and we're gonna go here. We're gonna go here. Please don't sue me, Dutch Bros.
SPEAKER_03I'm just we're just uh having fun here. Okay, made it. Let's do a front end here.
SPEAKER_01The Dulce de Leche is delicious if you ever get the chance.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I I'm uh hooked on the uh my daughter calls them the fizzers, but they're the uh summer drinks. What do they call them?
SPEAKER_01Uh the mists or something?
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_03My gosh. I'm sorry, Starbucks, but you ain't got nothing on the mists. All right, here we go. So I'm gonna go ahead and give it a couple of screenshots. Screenshots of the Dutch Bros ordering screens for your reference.
SPEAKER_02All right. All right, see what the heck happens. So what's gonna happen along the way is build agent is gonna come, it's gonna go back, it's gonna process and it's gonna basically build its instructions on what it needs, what it, you know, it's gonna lay out what it needs to build based on what you've given it. Again, little instruction, it's gonna infer some things. More instruction, it's gonna probably take uh what you have and and run with those specifics. Okay, fantastic concept based on the Desbro screenshot of your shit. I want you you want a full ordering experience. Let's go back up. So it was thinking, it came up with a plan, right? I can see you want a full ordering experience of product customization, sizes, flavors, toppings, location selection. So we didn't tell it sizes, flavors, and toppings, right? Good with that though. That's awesome, right? But see, this is where this is where Claude is helping, right? It's helping infer that you you want those things. You didn't specify those things, but you know what? You didn't even have to specify what those are. It's gonna come up with those for us. You'll see. It'll create the options for us, okay? All right, application's been created successfully. Now let me plan the full architecture for you. We've got a data model. We need locations, categories, menu items, sizes, flavors, toppings, order, order line items, inventory with appropriate fields and relationships. We need security and roles. Nah, we don't need that. Sample data, customer portal, build a mobile-friendly portal, inventory, and we need a workspace. All right, so I can approve this plan. And this some people don't realize this, but you don't have to approve. There's no disapprove and/or add more details button. It just, but you can. So but it does say right here, and this is new, I can new ish. It didn't say this before, but now you can you can suggest adjustments. Let's say, I forgot one thing. I'm going to need a workflow to ensure that the customer understands where their order is in the process. I think like the you know where I'm going, Domino's pizza tracker, so that the customer is informed of the status of their order along the way.
SPEAKER_03We are all about CSAT here at Pirate Smoothies. Okay. All right.
SPEAKER_02So we made a suggestion. We're gonna modify the plan. We had five steps before, you'll probably see six now because it's gonna add that workflow component to the piece. Never fear, like the plan isn't this the it's yeah, we've got six now. The plan isn't final until you say it's final. So we're just right now, we're just gonna approve the plan and let it build. Okay. Love it. Domino's pizza tracker style order status. Now watch, it's probably gonna start talking about pizza now.
SPEAKER_01Well, we'll you'll be able to get marinara as an add-on.
SPEAKER_02So it's activating the skill. So as I mentioned before, we have skills. Skills are instructions on how to do things. So what you see is it's activating the tables, columns, and override skill. By the way, the beauty of us owning this is that we're updating that stuff all the time. So our tables, columns, and override skill, it's going to continue to be updated, right? Over over time. We're probably using AI to do that. I don't know that for sure, but I would assume we are. So it has instructions like the table name must start with X underscore. Those are things that we as architects or we as builders on the platform, we know these things. We know the standards that you have to build within. Well, now AI knows how to do that. Cross scope, scope access, mandatory fields, adding columns, overriding values, key concepts, things to avoid. Like that's all in its skilled instructions. Okay. The scope is X underscore XNC, pirate smooth zero. Okay. Now I need to build the data model. What you said earlier is what I've been pitching is the value here steel. My opinion, it's not to replace people, it's make them move faster. If you think about the time it takes for you to go to tables and columns, or whether you, you know, if you do it in Creator Studio, whichever, there's 15 ways to do one thing on the platform, which I love and hate at the same time. But if I go and build a table, I gotta think about the columns, I gotta think about column names, I gotta think about all those things. This is where we start to toe the line between vibe coding and actual true building of apps and developing. Okay. There are times where you have to have deterministic workflows, you have to be very specific about tables and naming and nomenclature values that are in those tables. So you don't want to eat up your assists. You don't want to just bang out stuff for the for the fun of it because you're paying for it, right? So where you you still have to have a human prompting these things. So you're gonna want to make sure that people still know that your product, they still understand what it takes to build, and that they're not just free-flowing vibe coding and application just to see what happens. Like that, that's basically what we're doing now. But I'll tell you this a lot of people that hire ServiceNow consultants, I've been that guy, I've been the chump that they've been stumping at the other end of the table. And they'll I like I went into a a large uh, I don't want to give it away, but a company that sells things on TV. And I went into their offices and they we were talking about supply chain and some other things, and they were they hit me with a lot of hard questions. I'm a platform architect, I'm not a specialist in any one any one area. I know quite a few, but I'm not like the know everything. I'm not the Oracle. I'm not Google either. And I walk in and they start asking me all this question, and they're like, Well, you're the expert. I'm like, you're the expert of your business. I'm not a supply chain expert, and I'm definitely not an expert in selling things on TV. I'm a ServiceNow platform expert. I can answer questions about the platform, but I can't tell you how to run your business. Okay. So large language models are kind of helping solve that. It's it's it's scary, but it's also like it's kind of cool because it's like, hey, if you if you just need some ideas, you need to run with something, whether it's an idea for an application, how to run a particular area of the business, maybe new ideas in the business sector, or like the example I put on LinkedIn, I couldn't articulate to my contractor how I wanted my bathroom to look. So I took a picture of the sticks of the room. I saw that. Yeah. And you saw the before and the after?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02They're pretty amazing. And the thing is, I wouldn't, I would have had to have hired an architect and a designer, interior designer to mock that up for me. How many hours and how many hundreds, potentially thousands of dollars did I save by being able to just have a conversation with AI. So again, that's where it gets, that's the scary part. It's like the power that's at our fingertips, the things that we can do, the people we can essentially replace, right? I've had to create some legal documents late lately and where I would have called my I have a lawyer friend, which is good. He doesn't charge me every time I ask him a question, but if I ask too many questions, he'll send me a bill. But but I can hop on and just ask those questions now. I have to take it with a grain of salt. It's not, again, there's that ownership. Is ChatGPT going to go to court with me and be like, well, yeah, I told him that. No, it's not. But it's going to help you get further along to be able to have an intelligent conversation with somebody about what you want legally and probably impress some people, right? I've had an attorney look at something and go, Well, my job's done for me. What do you need me to do? I'm like, I need you to validate this. Make sure that this is accurate. And they're like, okay, cool. And it'll be $500, whereas it might have been $4,000 before. So it guys, it's changing every industry. And where I would love to see it change is not how do I help me build a cool smoothie app is I want to, I want to see it like solve cancer, you know, fix fix cancer, fix mess and as and all the things that we're like, well, we don't even know where it where it came from. I want to see those advancements. I want to see that kind of stuff, not the I mean, this kind of stuff's cool.
SPEAKER_03But I I fingers crossed. I think that's coming. Yeah. It better be. I mean, that's a lot of wasted power.
SPEAKER_01It's uh I recall reading an article where there was this very manual process that they had to go through just to be able to experiment with a candidate that they came up with themselves, and now they can run the same thing through AI. It can test all these combinations out and then provide what candidates they should go after. And that just cuts down in research time. So expecting some fruit in that area. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Any uh, I guess while we're w watching paint draw, do you have you guys other than that, like any cool advancements, any cool thing that what what would you say is cool that you've seen AI saw for that surprised you?
SPEAKER_01I mean, uh the this is just I mean, on on topic here, and then I'll I'll think outside. I've seen a lot of value in being able to speed up even Pro Code Dev because demand seems almost infinite. Everybody's got ideas for things that they want, and we just talk depending on where you are, you constantly are in the position of having to say no for various reasons. Usually it's prioritization and then capacity and being able to lower the barrier or the bar when it takes from going from an initial concept to putting something out. I think this is increasing cycle time so that we can start looking at things that we had to say no to because if we didn't, we wouldn't get anything done. I think on the outside, medicine is a huge one. And I think one I've seen is called open evidence, where doctors have their own kind of AI engine and they're able to ask questions, get calculations. The really cool example there is based off of this patient, what drug interactions should they be what should I be watching out for? And pulling up stuff that maybe a doctor will want to naturally find without spending a lot of time, they go through and they validate it, just like the attorney is gonna go through and validate. But I think medicine uh in the medical field is definitely a big one.
SPEAKER_02So the old adage of your pharmacist will know your interactions, your doctor is gonna prescribe it, but you won't know until you go talk to the pharmacist whether there's gonna be a major interaction. Now they can cut that off. Because how many times have you gone to the pharmacist and they go, Hey, or you even ask. I mean, they don't even tell you because they're not looking at your comprehensive medical stuff. But if I said, Hey, I I take lacinopril, is it okay if I take, you know, this drug and they're like, oh no, that's not a good idea, but there is this other drug you can take, then I gotta go back to the doctor, then I gotta go, you know, there's another copay, then you know what I'm saying? It's like it to me, it's this is the kind of stuff that needs to be simplifying those areas of life for me. What about you, Brian?
SPEAKER_00You know, I look at it from a different lens, I guess. If I can learn to we we have various interviews with people who were trying to say, okay, I need this workflow, I need this app, I need this knee, I have this knee, and they'll have to barely tell you what they need. And you have to incrementally over a long period of time finally get there and build this app, right? This is getting us to be do better in the requests, the prompts, you know, that just the and it's also gonna be consistently uh delivered, coded, because build is doing it. You know, I mean uh you can build consistency, you can build I don't know, a language of this is how you ask for things. You know, I guess, you know, just I look at it that way as streamlining what we did longhand, you know. So I look at it that way, yeah, you can do a lot of cool things, but the the method I'm getting there is what I'm excited about.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and we have let me see if I can find it. I hope I can. Let's see.
SPEAKER_03Here, R S. Where is my agent? Is it here? So no, that's not it.
SPEAKER_02What you mentioned is is the, you know, we're in build agent, and build agent's job is to build. You need before that agent, like an agent that would go and and interview your customers. You you know, you know what you typically ask, right? And so you should be able to prompt that. We've got a cool site. I'll see if I can find it and share it. I don't want to make y'all drunk. But we have a list of all of our out-of-the-box AI agents broken out by um areas of the business, HRIT, risk, security, whatever. So we got a lot of cool stuff out there that you can go see that's just out of the box that you can, you know, purchase and use. Um, but then you can build your own, right? You can build your own skills, you can build your own agents and your own tools. And so I wouldn't see why you couldn't come in here and bang out a an interview agent that would allow someone to come into a portal and describe what they want, almost like a request or even a virtual agent conversation, is what I would do, because it could be some back and forth, and it's not just a deterministic like answer this question and it's got to be this. Lots of lots of opportunity out there to kind of do what you want to do. And then we don't sell it already.
SPEAKER_01There is a uh an AI demand specialist agent that's coming. So if you are using idea that demands that kind of pipeline, there's gonna be a specialist, an AI agent that can go and review those, which is nice because then that can kind of tee you up on kind of what to pay attention to first, and you can feed that that criteria or some kind of standard of criteria so that uh they can kind of process those.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. One thing to note as it's building and installing, uh, like it it so for step five for the customer portal, you'll see it built some items.
SPEAKER_03Let's see what it built. Does it show me my customer now?
SPEAKER_02It's building the customer facing portal. So it built what it needed for the portal. Hopefully a record producer, but we'll see. Um let's see here. Loading the skill resource. Let's check out the skill for the portal. I was so fascinated. I was so excited when I saw this because I was like, people hate building portals.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, uh, it's not my favorite.
SPEAKER_02There you go. SP service portal creates and configures service portal records, root container for pages, themes, menus, and configurations.
SPEAKER_00I also saw where you can say present also the user documentation, you know, so that how to use it for any material.
SPEAKER_02For sure, for sure. Yeah. Again, any knowledge that you can give it, whether it's pointing to a knowledge article or, you know, some something or just uh a picture, uh, you'll see we don't have attachments. Like you can upload a picture and even a picture of like a diagram and have it create a flow for you from that, but we don't have just well, let me dump you a bunch of files and you go figure it out. That's not there yet. Probably coming, but I I I'm not speaking that I know, so don't hold me to that. All right, as you can see, let's see, let's create the works. Okay, so it showed me some things it's built. What's interesting, it usually waits until it's done, done, but it looks like it's building a workspace now. But it created eight tables, implemented three roles, built the Domino's pizza. Daggum it, I shouldn't have said that. Created a business rule, uh, but let's see what it created, and then created form views for all eight tables. So think about this is where the magic happens. Think about how long it would have taken you to build a flow, eight tables with data, okay, 69 columns, ACLs, roles, okay. How long it would have taken you. Now you could probably go through here architecturally and pick this apart and go, well, I wouldn't have built it that way, or I would have extended this table, which by the way, we didn't tell it to extend the table. I could have. There are things that you could do, and you'll think back and go, uh, and that's again where the rubber is going to meet the road, right? The CIOs are gonna be um paying for your access to build agent, and they're gonna want people that have experience building applications that aren't just gonna vibe code the next application. That's where the danger is. Okay. Again, the power is there to make us go faster. It's not to replace the knowledge of app building, it's to it's to uh encourage faster building. Right. I don't have to go think of the syntax of a JavaScript or a glide record query. It just knows it for me. So I don't have to think about that anymore.
SPEAKER_01And that's I mean, when I think about the backlog and stuff that's been sitting in there for a year plus, I mean, that this looks like the solve for that in some ways. Even if it does not build in the way that we might design it, you can still take that and you can adjust it. You could even tell it, hey, yeah, you didn't get that right instead of a business rule. Please make this a flow and then set up some kind of standard so that it doesn't do that next time.
SPEAKER_02But this theory should have already known that. Like it should have known like it's not gonna do like some partners do, and that's all they know how to build or business rules. And they never they never took the course on flow designer. Like it, you don't have to worry about that with build agent because it knows and I I'm sure Safe Harbor, all that stuff is coming.
SPEAKER_01But that is that is kind of the power of it, is you can sit here, type in uh your very your your query, your prompt, and then just iterate over time and focus on solving the problem and a little bit less about all the different places in the platform that you need to go to put your solution together. And that's not insurmountably difficult, but with what you you're a tough customer with the solution that you're describing here, with the portal, the workspace. Just I mean, just the portal development alone is a bear. Uh the rest of it, not so bad.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I don't know how much time you spent in UI builder, but building a workspace can be challenging.
SPEAKER_01No comment. No comment.
SPEAKER_02Okay, I made it for you, and I'm an employee. No, I'd be lying if I said it was super easy. I will say it's gotten better. It's gotten a lot better.
SPEAKER_01As long as this can interface with that, we're we're golden.
SPEAKER_02Yep. All right, let's see what it did. Let's see what you put together. And I why I should have never said pizza tracker. I said live the pizza tracker.
SPEAKER_01You called it. It's it's if it's a live demo. If it didn't happen, it it would have been staged.
SPEAKER_02Where would be the fun, right? So, all right, so it's cool. It summarized what it did for me. It did over here too, by the way. And this kind of this updated, as you can see, I've got a service portal. All right, so let's see what happens. Let's watch the fireworks.
SPEAKER_01I mean, just just this probably would have taken weeks.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, oh yeah. So, all right, we're having a little fun. So I didn't give it a brand, I didn't give it a theme or anything. So let's go function of twelve. Ooh, I mean to do that. 11. What did I do? Give it, give it, give me back. Come back. Okay, that's what I wanted.
SPEAKER_03But I want to see this as an iPhone. Where are you at? Where's my here? We go. iPhone 14 Pro Max. All right, at least 50. Let's do 100.
SPEAKER_02All right, so now we got the smoothie app. We've got Isaya Adventure.
SPEAKER_01That's smooth me. I'm thirsty now. I love it.
SPEAKER_02Tropical Paradise. Let's see, does that work? Does it change? No. Um, let me get rid of this. Get rid of this. So small, medium, large. Look, I didn't even tell it. Yeah. Didn't even tell it what the ounces were. All right. If I could get that for $250 at Dutch, hey Dutch Bros. $250. Yeah, let's go. Pirates Pina Colada.
SPEAKER_01Employee discount.
SPEAKER_02As you can see, the prices don't match. So look, I've got $6.99 for the for that, but when I select the different, maybe it's adding that amount. It is. Okay. So it's like small is that price that it gave you. Well, that's deceptive. So it adds $250 to it. Okay, now we're talking real-term numbers here, real life numbers. So go to checkout. Let's see what happens. Pickup location. Downtown. Okay.
SPEAKER_01I love it.
SPEAKER_02California. I want to pick it up at midnight. Um, and I'm allergic to nuts. Okay, place of order. Order placed. Look, we got an order again. Cross scope privileges problems, of course. Okay. So now I did tell it I wanted to go. I wanted to be able to check the status of my order. So where's my order status screen? Where are you at? So I've got a way to order it. All right. So let's see what else it built. It's getting there, right? Gave me something. Let's see what the workspace looks like. Oh, we got one active order. We got low, low stock items. Let's see, we got this low stock. Coconut milk, quantity on hand, reorder, low stock. Let's go back home. Let's look at our active orders. Let's see if it even gave us uh different like stages in the order.
SPEAKER_03Let's see here. And let's see. Okay. No, oh, roll.
SPEAKER_02It sure did. Let's continue. Let's close that. Oh, it's because it didn't set a uh display value. All right. So we've got order status. Okay, that's good. Order placed. So we should be able to see that. All right, let's go back.
SPEAKER_03Let's make one quick update. Let's see if it'll do it. For some reason, when I order or when I place my order, I do not see the ability to check on orders placed. Can you give me that ability in the customer portal view? Can you do that? What happened? What's going on here? Do not see my order that I placed, only the ability to place a new order.
SPEAKER_02Can you fix? Let me select all and copy that because I don't want to type that again. And go.
SPEAKER_03Okay. So let's. Okay, now it's loading. I was like, what?
SPEAKER_02And there's my first prompt. I guess uh my window's just moving slow here. Uh let's see. Did it miss anything else while we're waiting on that to mess around? We got different options. Protein power. That's really cool. Be cool if it gave me uh if it gave me actual pictures, like if it could go find that. That'd be a fun little additional thing. But I mean, how cool is that? We got tables, we got orders, we've got inventory, dashboard, workspace.
SPEAKER_03Like, that's freaking awesome. Okay, for sure.
SPEAKER_01The other thing that I've uh noticed that's also really cool is it will generate mermaid diagrams for you, process diagrams. You can ask it about the architecture of your application, uh, how two guides you could generate from this.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and you can ask it. So I told it to do portal, right? And that's that caters to our typical audience, right? But it will do UI pages, it will do animated UI pages if that's something you want to manage. Back to my guardrails discussion. There are guardrails in a portal where you can do themes, you can do order status pages, like you can create CSS framework to work within. When you get into UI pages, it's kind of the wild west. And that's where we started in Build Agent, and that's all it would do was create UI pages. Again, more they're prettier, more user-friendly, but definitely less guardrails to manage within. Does that mean that you couldn't create those when you're building? Sure, you could, but you would have to do that at a platform level and not within each app. So you'd have to create some frameworks around that to be able to keep people in the guardrails. So that's why I demonstrate portal and I demonstrate workspace, is because that's where you have guardrails uh written.
SPEAKER_03Uh okay. Let's do that.
SPEAKER_01And I I think the other thing is you mentioned it earlier. This is a translation layer of sorts for Fluents. So if you update something outside of build agent, say you you go look at that business rule or you go look at that flow and you make a change there, you've got to somehow get that back into Fluent or represented there.
SPEAKER_02No, no, no, no. Because what it's done is it's actually used Fluent to translate and build. So if you were in the IDE, yes, because because it's a it's a different app structure. Um so it's it's a little bit different. But when you're in build agent and studio, you're actually building.
SPEAKER_01So if I wanted to go into I I mean, if you clicked outside of here and you just went into the form itself, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I'll do that.
SPEAKER_01So I'm let me go into why is let me ref and we don't necessarily need to go down uh too much of a rabbit hole here, but yeah, you can click on any of those and it'll open it up there, which is uh extremely convenient versus having to again click around.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, if I were to go into my pirate smoothie at where are you at? Okay, here it is. So if I were to go open this and dig into even outside of build agent. So keep in mind we're still in studio. So if I were to go and want to maybe modify the table, or let's go into that business role, that's what I was trying to find. There it is. So set order to timestamp. What you're gonna see is the the user experience like you would see in UI 16 or next experience, whatever you want to call it. I still call it UI 16. But it'll open that and you can make modifications to that just as you would anywhere else. You can also ask build agent to make the modifications for you, but you can modify it here if it'll open. I'm I'm really taxing the system, it seems like.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, when you said uh service portal, that that was expert level challenge there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, build and deploy. All right, see, see this? I mean, that's like you would get out of box, so you can make the changes here and save it, update it, whatever.
SPEAKER_01So you've got one interface where the app is being built, and you even while the app is being built, you can go look around the application, uh, make changes, updates, review how things are, and you've got it all here. You don't have to have to go anywhere else. No, you don't. That is incredibly helpful, very powerful. And again, getting from zero to an app, I mean, minutes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, we talked a lot about a lot of other things. I'd say we've probably been building for what, maybe 25, 30 minutes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And then uh it's that CPA example. So you've got the app, it's built. Now you can hand it off to a pro dev, or this is your starting point. Or if you have a simpler example, you kind of one-shot it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for sure. I mean, you know, we just we went into a full retail ordering system. I mean, you could definitely simplify this and move a lot faster. I mean, back to what you were saying, you got a backlog in the business. Yeah, people wanting things and needing things. I mean, you could move, deliver a lot faster with this. And by the way, your partners are gonna be doing that too if they're smart. But the problem, the problem with partners doing that is they're doing it in your instance, right? So if they're um they're using your tokens or your not tokens, I keep saying that, but they're using your assist. Yeah, to build that. Now you may be okay with that. Uh and I'm sure the language is changing. I'm sure statements of work are looking a lot different now. You can continue to do that the old way, and they can you pay your your devs and your resources by the hour, or you know, by firm fixed price bid or whatever, or you say, Hey, uh again, I I'm not in the partner world anymore, but I can imagine conversations are happening. Where they're like, okay, if we're if we're building this fast and we're doing it on your instance, yeah, we're using it's kind of like hiring a guy to mow your lawn, but he uses your mower. It's like, well, is it gonna be a little cheaper for me to do that? You you're using my mower and my gas, right? You're dulling my blades. I I don't want to do it. I don't want to mow or weedy, but I have the equipment, just come do it. It this feels the same to me. Interesting. Yeah, but different.
SPEAKER_01Gotcha. The the the labor and then going through and putting the effort in. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Looks like a throat to choke when it's not right, right?
SPEAKER_01That's true too. That's I I do like the CPA example. I I I'm resonating with that.
SPEAKER_02My orders, there it is. And looky there. There's the order that I placed with the two items. It didn't it did not give me the price, but it did note that I did I was allergic to nuts.
SPEAKER_01So I've spent many a weekend updating widgets. Well, there you go. This is incredible.
SPEAKER_02And and guess what? It built that widget for you. So if you if you're curious, you go it steal what it built you. If you liked it, if you're like, dang, I want to use that again. Okay, cool. Now you got it. And now it again, all back in the mode of speeding us along. We're moving faster, we're innovating faster. I love it. Like I love the power that's at people's fingertips. I'm cautious about it, but I'm I'm loving the ability that you have with build agent.
SPEAKER_01So the uh the hope that I have is that this will increase the amount of sleep that devs can get. I I think that is a net positive. Also makes it look like the developer role is changing a little bit. There's a lot more emphasis on understanding that problem domain so that we can solve it in in the right ways.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I think uh a capability like this, we there's definitely a place for guardrails, and I think this is something you would take through technical governance. You take through your your standard operating procedures and uh with the assist consumption, there's also that that licensing consideration here as well. So I think definitely guardrails is something to put on this, but it this is an amazing capability. Thank you, Jeremy, for sharing this. Uh before we wrap up, any other words that you want to say on this one?
SPEAKER_02No, uh I've said a lot, but I I I would just, you know, point back to prompt prompt engineering is is where it's at. That's where when people hire you, they're gonna be looking at your ability to not, you know, spin the farm when you're you know, when you're coding things, you need to be very explicit about what you want. Um so there should be even some standard practices that organizations are thinking about around that, some parameters that they put on the usage of of the product within the the platform. And I would just say have fun building. I mean, when you have a a platform like this, and there are lots of great examples of this out there. The world's your oyster and all your ideas that you wish you would have come up with and and built, like you, you can you can go do it now. And for all the organizations that that use us, you know, I would encourage you to get into that backlog and see how much fun you can have getting through it faster and uh making your customers happy and really realizing the the value of the platform because I've said this many times that to customers, again, I've been on the platform 15 years, and I was that customer saying, This is so expensive. But the the the comment was, and it's true, and I believe it, I just didn't drink the Kool-Aid, is that the more you utilize the platform, the better value you get out of it. If you're just buying service now for just ITSM, for instance, you have you're basically bought a Ferrari to go 10 miles an hour, right? Maybe I would even argue two miles per hour. You you've got a Ferrari, use it. And the more you you get the business utilizing it. And then the other last thing I would say is, you know, we sell a lot of products, and there are a lot of organizations that need our products. They need HR, they need IT, they need security and risk, they need GRC and or IRM or whatever. They need all those things. But there's also the fact that you have a platform to build whatever in the heck you want to build. And there's so many ideas in the organization that don't have to be stifled by, well, let me wait for my dev team to get through patching and upgrades and and making enhancements to out-of-the-box applications. Like you have a build-first platform. That's the the Fred Luddy designed it that way for a reason. And I think you should get the value out of it, put as much in there as you can, make the processes faster and better. And uh yeah, I that's that's probably what I'd leave you with. And now you have a a friend with build agent to go help you do that.
SPEAKER_01So that's awesome. Thank you, Jeremy.
SPEAKER_00You get a lot of old old apps sitting on old Windows servers and antiquated support, and just now you can build replacement apps that do the same thing. You know, replace that can replace those apps by doing some, you know, there's some opportunities here that if you do it right and even provide statements to add for them, like a library of prompts in a sense, to help help the users along and and building their their request in a sense. There's a lot of opportunity here.
SPEAKER_01So this this really uh emphasizes the importance of upskilling. All right. Well, with that, Wired Garage fam. Time to put the wrenches down. That's a wrap. Thank you again, Jeremy, for providing your insight and perspective on build agent. This really does feel like a new frontier of innovation. If this episode was exciting, I taught you something, please like, subscribe, share with a friend. Hope you learned something today. I know I did.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, two episodes in, and they still bring any heat. So if you haven't gone back and listened to the round one, do that, then come back here. Together, they tell complete stories. So, Jeremy, we thank you for trusting us with your voice again. Um, appreciate the time. Uh, wired garage. We want you to subscribe, share, and we'll see everyone in the next one.
SPEAKER_02Thank you guys. Awesome.
SPEAKER_01Cheers.
