You Can't Do That? Watch Me. — Jeremy Duncan on Tech, Mentorship & Staying Human

Jeremy Duncan is a cloud platform solution architect with 20+ years of experience, Fortune 500 engagements, and a reputation that precedes him — green glowing shoes and all. But behind the accolades is a story built on grit. Raised by a single mom working three jobs, Jeremy grew up watching hustle from a bar stool at a Nashville watering hole and turned that into fuel. In this episode, Jeremy takes us from a maraschino-cherry childhood to a 10-year run as a reserve police officer — all while building a career at the top of the ServiceNow ecosystem.

We get into his work connecting Ukrainian war refugees to American sponsors through the Goldman Sachs-backed welcome.us platform (later the subject of a Tribeca film), his unsanctioned mentorship cohort turning nurses and veterans into tech professionals, and his honest, grounded take on AI, workforce transformation, and how leaders should navigate the noise. He closes with two words that say it all: Choose joy.

✅ KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Grit is inherited — Jeremy's drive traces directly to watching his mom hustle across three jobs. The foundation of his work ethic wasn't a college campus, it was a bar stool.
• Intangibles over credentials — When mentoring, Jeremy doesn't look for degrees or certifications. He looks for people who are already the "go-to" for computers, who lean in naturally, who want to sit behind a screen.
• Technology with a human center — His most meaningful career moment wasn't a Fortune 500 deployment. It was connecting Ukrainian refugees to American families, one platform, one family at a time.
• Imposter syndrome is universal — Even the most decorated architects feel it. The answer isn't to ignore the change — it's to ride it.
• AI will change IT, not destroy it — Marketing is ahead of engineering. The pendulum will correct. The skill of the 21st century is prompt engineering, not just tool mastery.
• Don't let leaders swing the pendulum too far — The C-suite mistake Jeremy sees repeatedly: wholesale pivots instead of bite-sized, thoughtful AI adoption that starts with the soul-crushing work nobody wants anyway.
• Faith and family are the real grounding agents — When the stakes are highest, Jeremy doesn't look at the spreadsheet. He looks up.

🔑 KEYWORDS / TAGS
ServiceNow, Cloud Architecture, AI and the Future of Work, Mentorship,  Workforce Transformation, Human-Centered Design, Prompt Engineering,  Imposter Syndrome, Tech Leadership, Faith and Career, Origin Story, Reserve Police Officer, Ukrainian Refugees, welcome.us, Grit and Resilience, Choose Joy

CHAPTERS

• Jeremy Duncan's Origin Story
• Mentorship and Paying It Forward
• Meaningful Projects and Humanitarian Impact
• The Future of Technology and AI
• The Economic Impact of AI on Employment
• Trust and Security in Technology
• Navigating Change in Leadership
• Personal Grounding in a Tech-Driven World
• The Human Element in Technology

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

And I'll never forget her saying, oh, you can't do that. I was like, oh, you just said the magic words, like, sure we can.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

A cloud platform solution architect with over 20 years of experience who is highly decorated in his field, has a multitude of certifications, Fortune 500 engagements, and has made a real impact on the world, as you'll hear in this episode. You might know him by his green glowing shoes. When the pros need help, they call the A-Team.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Yeah, when the A Team needs help, they call on an innovator, problem solver, bulldozer, humanitarian, and family man. Please welcome Jerry Jeremy Duncan to the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Thanks, guys. Thanks for the invite and glad to be here.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Glad to have you. So thank you so much, Jeremy, for being here with us today. Super, super appreciate it. It was a pleasure to meet you earlier. We talked a little bit before the show. And in spending time with you, I got to learn a little bit more about you, about who you are. And I was wondering if you would share some of that with this audience tonight, specifically the things that instilled that fire for problem solving and that drive in you that made you who you are today. What does a Jeremy Duncan origin story look like?

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Man, that goes all the way back to when I was a kid. My mother had me when she was 17 years old, though uh me and my mom still hang out. We're we're so close in age, you know, there's not much much of a gap there. And and even when we go out, they're like, hey, uh, is that your wife? And my mom loves it when that happens. I don't because of all my gray hair, thanks to my kids. I'm like, no, that's my mother. And they're like, oh, you're doing good, mom. But I will tell you, like, my origin story starts with her. Single mom raising me. And um, I never missed a ball game, never missed school. I had my grandparents in my life, so I don't want to forget them too. Um, they've they're dead and gone now, but they were a huge part of taking care of me when mom couldn't be there when she was working. There was a time in my life where she was working three jobs. I grew up in a bar on a bar stool. I can remember the owner of Hermitage Crossings in Hermitage, Tennessee, always giving me 50 bucks for any A's that I got on my report card. And uh I spent my childhood eating marricino cherries at the bar watching my mom hustle to provide for me. And there were times, there were moments when um, you know, sitting at the table, I would see her struggle over what bills she could pay. Um that just, I think that lit a fire in me at a young age to say, man, I don't ever want this for my kids. And I don't look back on that and it's like a sad story. And and my mom and I have always had a great relationship. It's never, I've never looked at her and been like, why can't you provide? Because she's always been a hustler. And so that hustler in her bled over into me. And I said, I'm gonna hustle too. And I'm never gonna miss a bill. I'm never gonna miss, you know, a moment in my children's life because she instilled that in me. So that's where it started. And then, of course, getting through college, not the typical story where mom and dad paid for college. I definitely rode the free scholarship the first two years and then decided I wanted to go to work and hustle like my mom did. And so I got my first job at Dell uh computers and worked in Nashville doing that. And I took advantage of their um college reimbursement program, and I took $5,600. I think it was $5680 was the number that they gave us uh every year for college. And I was like, well, how long do I have to stretch this out? I think so. I graduated to this. So it took me nine years to get a four-year degree, but I'm proud of that. Uh four-year degree over nine years, could have been a doctor, but uh, I picked this path. So yeah, that's where it all started.

SPEAKER_02 4:41

So one, your your mom set a high bar, right? I mean, yeah, she did it alone, she did it the hard way, but I think that's a bar you saw. You didn't know she was working at a you know at a bar or whatever else. You didn't know all you knew is she provided for you and she was there. And uh I think that's great. That's a great story. So do you pay that forward? Are you intentional about being that person for someone else?

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Yeah, I've had several opportunities in the career that I have now in cloud computing. I've had um a prior law enforcement officer and veteran, a marine veteran, come to me and you know, we'd have coffee's guy go to church with, and he moved to Tennessee from California, and I was like, I don't know if I can be a friend with a California. No, I'm just kidding. Like, I did, I did look at him through that lens because I'm a Tennessee boy. So when people start moving here from other places, it's kind of like, oh, okay, do you fit, you know, well, do we do we have like-mindedness? And and we do, like we're we're good buds, we're best friends. Matter of fact, he just texted me and asked if we want coffee in the morning. But he came to me one day and said, Man, like I'm retired police. I'm trying to figure out what I want to do next. And I look at you every day and I see the joy that you have in the work that you do, and he's like, I want that. And then I had another girl come to me or another friend from church, and she said, I want that too. And so I had enough people that I was like, let's get a cohort together and let's learn. Let me teach you what I know about the uh service now of the platform that I've been in a career in for 15 years. And there's even an origin story there that we can talk about later. But when they came to me and said, Hey, I want that, I wanted nothing more than that for them, right? Because they wanted to change their lifestyle. They wanted to opportunity to make more money, opportunity to do something new that they'd never done before. And so absolutely people come to me, probably more than I can handle, honestly. I'm sorry for the people that I haven't been able to work with, but the folks that that um put a foot forward and and tried hard to learn something new. I've given my time and and I'm proud to say that they both work at a partner of service now. And they've been there, one's been there two years, one there's been there a little over a year. They're doing great. Um, and they're very happy. They're very grateful for the opportunity that they had. And so I just, yeah, any chance that I can, I definitely want to pay it forward for those who are willing to put a foot forward and try, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Yeah. And so it sounds like that area or that form of mentorship happened organically. And you mentioned a cohort. Is that something that you would do again or try again? Or were there lessons that you learned in this round of mentorship?

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Absolutely. There's a matter of fact, was having a little get together for a friend of mine. His wife passed away and the whole family got together. We buried a tree this weekend, and and his daughter, who's my age, was saying, Hey, she's a nurse and an LPN. And she said, I'm on, I'm kind of on a break. Like I'm only working two days a week. And and I would like, she goes, I'm good with computers. Is there anything I can do in your field? And I said, Absolutely. And she's she's a mom of four. She had her first kid at 18. And I'm like, I get the tingles when I think about it because I'm like, you're like, yes, you're like my mom was when you know she was looking for opportunities. So I said, absolutely. And so she's number one, and I'd like to add a few more to that. And and basically all I do, I say cohort. It's not official, it's not even sanctioned by ServiceNow. But if I've got someone who's hustling and wants to try something new, I absolutely want to teach them a new way. And and whether it's ServiceNow or whatever, right? They're SaaS providers out there. There's all kinds of things that you can do with the skill set. And so I'm absolutely going to teach her everything I know. And then I'm going to turn her loose in the training world and and she will make of herself what she wants to. And so yeah, I absolutely already, already doing it and will continue to do it as long as people come to me and want to learn.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

So yeah, I I come from a history of no college degree, you know, worked from help desk, work my way up. And so I when I see people, you know, in those positions, I think, I think of myself, or I think what, you know, what would my mentors have done for me, I need to do that as well and pass that forward. And it's just fun to do those things and see people survive. And I call them graduate, right? Even if they leave you and go to another company, they graduated, right? And kind of and moved on to something better and greater, and that's great. It's fine. And uh but it's fun to watch those those things happen. It's character. If they have the character, the diligence, the work ethic, you can teach them just about anything.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

Yeah. Yeah, I've often thought maybe I should make a business of it, but it's just it's fun, it's fun, it's rewarding for me, not monetarily, but it's rewarding for me to see people go from, you know, hey, I'm making, you know, 60 grand a year. And it's not all about the money, but when they go from making 60 grand a year to 80, that's life-changing, 70 grand, 10 grand. Like it would take them years to get to that level and to learn a new skill and to be able to say, I can do that. Like when you see the light bulbs come on, it's those moments that I live for. It's like they see like something I would say, like Service Now as this, well, I don't even know what that is. And then you go explain to them, like, you take a real world problem. So I st I'll tell you, I started with Chris Brunt is his name. And uh I said, What it give me an example of something you've done in your past life that you need technology for. And he gave me an example where he was managing assets in the uh in the Marine Corps, and they would do it with sticky notes, and like he'd come in and there'd be sticky notes all over his computer screen. He's got to, you know, take this and put it in this spreadsheet and do this and do that. And when he said spreadsheet, I said, okay, let's start there. A spreadsheet's a table and a platform, right? Columns and rows. So let's go in and build a table, right? So you start with just the basic things that they understand and can cling on to, and then you work your way into what a platform offers, right? The thing, the clicks that you have to go through to enable certain things or build certain things. And then you explain to them like what a workflow is. I mean, they do workflow every single day. There's just a platform there that will enable them to make that workflow happen. And so it's just cool. Like to me, it's not about the tech, it's about them unlocking a new skill set, seeing a light bulb come on for them. That's just it's magic. It's powerful for me. Like it's more than money, it's more than anything else in the world, like to see people excited about something, a new opportunity. And when my mom, and and I'll go back to my mom, when I saw people give her a chance, because she had no education, but she ended up working her way up through Burger King and working her way up through some title companies and ended up being like the head of a title company with no degree, you know? And I saw that and I'm like, if some, and and so Steele, you asked the questions like, did you learn any lessons, right? And I will say, out of the, you know, cohorts that I've done, there are people who embrace it, but they don't go any further with it. And I've gotten a little better at identifying the intangibles in people. Not that I don't care about a degree, I don't care about your technical certifications. The intangibles are like when this person came to me this weekend and said, I want to do this. And oh, by the way, I'm the one in the office that they always come to for help with their computer stuff. If they need something done on a computer, I'm the person. And I'm like, light bulb for me. Like you have the aptitude, you're willing to sit behind a desk and deal with technology. But when somebody comes to me and they're like, Yeah, I want what you have, I want the money, I want the, I want to, I wanna, and I say, You want to sit at home all day and stare at a computer screen? They're like, Oh, heck no, I gotta be outside. I'm like, then maybe outside sales is the job for you. You know, I don't know. Yeah, I could teach you that too, but like technology involves a little bit of that. And so they're again, they're things you look for in people and they'll express it just in conversation, those things that just that make you know whether they're gonna be successful at this job or not.

SPEAKER_02 12:49

Yeah, we had a legal assistant in one of our firms, and she's up in a different office, and she was probably help desk with service desk, we call that her pa pain in the rear. Right. She was always pushing them, always finding issues, you know, just that type of person. So we started looking for somebody in that office to sort of be a representative locally. And the first person I thought of was ask her. And they thought, she you're crazy, she's a pain in the rear. No, she's going to do it, right? She's already showing her interest, but she's showing it in a different way. Let me let me open the book for her. One, she'll learn how hard it really is to do what we do, but two, she's got ideas. And she became something great up there. And then she ended up working. I think she went to Joan's Day, a large international law firm after that. And a couple, so she took off with it. And it's just fun, it's just fun to watch people do things. It it is sad though to know that law enforcement, medical, your first responders, that their path is not as good as technology just because of what they do in a day. Right? I mean, their money, their their opportunities in the job field. It's just they do it for love, you know, but you don't they don't do it for money. But it's just sad teaching. You know, I wish those people made more money, they had more opportunities like we do in tech, somewhat, you know.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

But you know, that's another part of my origin story. Uh, still, I hope it's okay to go here, but uh Yeah, go ahead. You know, I got a soft spar spot in my heart for law enforcement because when I was younger, I actually I wanted nothing more than to be a police officer. I was eight years old, I'll never forget standing at the Piggly Wiggly with my grandmother. And she was friends with a Metro Nashville police officer. He was on the SWAT team, and he had his SWAT insignia. And uh he goes, You want to see the blue lights? And I was like, Uh-huh. You know, eight-year-old, of course, yeah. Show me the woo-woos. And uh, that's what we called him in law enforcement. And so um, he showed me the woo-woos, and I was like a bug to a light, and I was like, that's what I want to be when I grow up. All the way through high school. I took criminal justice courses. I like it was just I was lit up about it. And then I I started putting some puzzle pieces together. I was like, okay, I I was I was raised poor. My my baseball coaches were usually cops, they were usually divorced or alcoholics. Hard life. It's a hard life, and I'm not saying every police officer is like that. I know many great, like men and women of law enforcement are a lot of good people out there. Some of them, though, get caught up in the trappings of I've got to work double shifts. And they and back to your point, Brian, they don't make enough money. And so they have to work double shifts. They have to deal with really the the worst of of society and could be really good people, but it's on their worst day. And so, you know, I was blessed to get into I I made the decision because again, back to my origin story, I'll never forget my mom took me to to comp USA when I was 12 years old and she put a an e-mach or an E Mac or no e-machines. It looked like the E Mac. They got sued for it. It was the colored shell, clamshell looking computer. I'll never forget it. And she bought that on a credit card and signed up for AOL that she couldn't afford and just to be able to get the discount on the computer. And when that thing broke the first time I was 12 years old, I found a new passion in life. I fixed it. The light bulb went off. And so I fell in love with technology back then. And then by the time I got to high school, I was debating like technology, be a cop. Cop was really in my blood and kind of in my heart. But I made a decision to say, you know what? I don't want to struggle. I don't want to live that life. I don't want to fall into those trappings. So I'm gonna go tech. And I did. And fast forward, so to 2012, um, I was standing outside of a backyard burger in Hendersonville, and I had been researching being a reserve or auxiliary police officer. And I just walked up on those two police officers. I said, Hey, do you guys, is there such a thing as a reserve program in Hendersonville? And they both looked at each other and laughed. And I was like, I guess I said something funny. And they said, No, we're we're reserve police officers. And I looked at them and they were, I mean, fully dressed, geared, the whole nine yards, and I was like, What? And they're like, Yeah, and actually we have a new cohort. We're new trainees. We're gonna train up. We have approval for 45, but we've got like 20. So I was, anyways, I was in a class of 23 new recruit uh reserve police officers in Hendersonville, and I spent 10 years as a reserve police officer. So I would suit up at night when my kids were, you know, in bed, tucked in. I would hit the midnight shift and I would go. I felt like Batman when I first started doing it. I was like, I'm out fighting crime at night, you know. And so I'd go work the C shift and uh get home by three o'clock, you know, in the morning when things died down. All the domestics and DUIs were all usually we're back from jail on our, you know, it's usually time to wind down about 3 or 4 a.m. So I come back home and and I did that for 10 years and and I loved it and was got had the opportunity to serve my community in that way and also be able to check a box for myself. That was the that was me time. I don't I never spent time on a boat fishing, never spent time extra time hunting in the woods, never like cop time was me time, and it was an opportunity to go out and and fulfill that dream. Uh, for anybody who's out there and has that dream, that every city, every county usually has some type of auxiliary program. So I would encourage you to go do that. So yeah, it's great.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Yeah, it's awesome. Having that congruency with yourself, like that is a huge win. And I also have learned in that conversation that you're great at spotting people who would be sassy. So to kind of switch gears, and I do like my ponds.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

You never get old, Steele, that never gets old.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

It never does. And maybe getting in the in the weeds just a little bit. Obviously, you have a ton of experience in technology and solving problems and applying it to real world scenarios, not hypothetical scenarios, but real world scenarios. And so I wanted to ask: was there something that's personal in your career that really means something to you that you would categorize as a a win or something that you carry with you that reminds you why you do what you do?

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Yeah, and it it's hard to pick one because in the seven years that I've been here at ServiceNow, I've had the opportunity to work with a lot of our top Fortune 120 companies. And being able to go in and do the work that I do, which is um focused on human, like human-centered design. We go in and and we look at an organization and we take a handful of problems that they're facing. And it could be rudimentary, it could be things that are already defined, like you know, IT or HR, you know, things that are in the organization and the enterprise that are we would consider what we call a horizontal business unit. Um, those are easy because those are your typical, there many people have solved for it. You know, everybody does a little bit different way. But when when a customer comes and says, I want to do something that's never been done before, but that's like music to my ears. Or when they come, I'll never forget I was on a on a call with an executive, I won't mention her name, at Ford Motor Company, a descendant of a Ford Motor Company founder. And I'll never forget her saying, Oh, you can't do that. I was like, Oh, you just said the magic words, like, sure we can. And and so there are a lot of those um in major corporations that I've had, but I'll never forget the the moment a friend of mine, Mike Buckner, called me. Um, he's still at service now as well. And he he called me and was like, I I I'll never for I was in Disney and was like with my family, and I saw him call. I was like, Gotta answer that. And so I answered, and he's like, hey, dude, I we got this this really cool initiative that we're we're trying to kick off and would love for you to you know be a part of it if if you can do it. And so talked to my boss, I was like, hey, this is a good opportunity and let's go do this. And we all agreed. And so um it was during the time, the height of the Ukrainian war, and um a customer of ours, Goldman Sachs, uh, called and and and said, Hey, we're sponsoring this company called welcome.us and they would like to implement a platform to connect refugees from war-torn countries. And in this case, we started with the Ukrainian war. We would like to connect them to sponsors in the US. Now, this is something the State Department already does with, you know, they'll do like a group, like a group connection, like they'll connect people with like like groups of people like churches or other people like that. But they wanted to do like a like a person to person, like open it up almost like a Facebook community kind of thing, like, hey, let's connect these individuals to fan families or whatever, but let's get them, let's get them stateside and and at least make that connection. And so I was like, man, I've done a lot of things on this platform, and this is one. Thing that I have not done. And the humanitarian um approach to the to the to the um to the challenge was great. I loved that. And um, you know, fast forward, they ended up making a tribe of a film called One Good Reason about it, and uh just touched a lot of people and it showed the cool thing about it was I've spent the better part of 15 years solving technological challenges in an enterprise business, but it's not often times where you get to jump into things like welcome.us, where they're like, hey, we need a platform too. Yeah, we have HR problems that we have to deal with, and we have IT stuff too, but we we want to use this to connect people. And it's like, well, okay, we can do that, right? And so it was awesome working through that. And it was it was a great experience. Um, we went live with it. We connected a lot of folks. I don't know the statistics off the top of my head, but it was in the thousands that we were able to connect and and even had a story of a person in the Service Now industry who reached out to me, lives just one state north of me, maybe an hour away from me. And he was like, Hey, I just want to let you know that when I saw that project announced, we got on there and used that. And now we have a Ukrainian living with us. And um, it, dude, it was like, that's why it continues to be like the coolest thing because it just shows where technology has such a bigger meaning than just, you know, enterprise business, right? It there's a lot that goes on and and that you can do. And um, yeah, so that's the most most meaningful project I think I've ever worked on.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

So I mean, uh hard to follow that one up, but I think that at the heart of that, I mean, technology is truly, really connecting people. Uh, and I think that's a fabulous story. What an experience to kind of carry to everything that follows next. Thank you for sharing that.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

Yeah, I was I was honored to get the call. I don't, I mean, anybody could have gotten that call. The fact that I got to work on it and and had so we such an amazing team um that I worked with, just amazing talent that was was able to pull it all together. It wasn't just me. I mean, there were a lot of people that worked on it. And um it I think they would all say it was an honor to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

And I also think that I mean, that's what happens when you show up, when you show up to solve no matter how difficult the challenge is, and especially if it's something that you haven't done before. You mentioned those magic words of you can't do that. Just wait, watch and see. And uh I think that is just an awesome way to think about no matter what level of a problem you are dealing with, uh, to just face it head on and go after it and see what can be done.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Yeah, imposter syndrome is a real thing. I had to look that up. It's I thought it was what I what it sounded like, and I was like, what is what is the definition of that? And it's like, you know, I have that a lot. You know, technology's changing around me every single us, ever all I mean, it's rapidly changing. And I've and the more I talk to people that are highly skilled, they're all feeling a little depressed and almost like, what am what am I doing? Like, am I am I an imposter? Like, am I really the person for this job? And I can say to everybody out there, we all feel the same way right now. And I I would say we have to embrace what's next and have a little bit of, you know, foresight into what's coming and and not just ignore things. I mean, this is a high time that we're living in, and and it's time to to grab on and and go with the change. And it's and it's tough, man. It's and if you don't have the spirit or attitude of taking things head on, it it could be a tough, a tough road for you.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

Speaking of that technology piece of it, when you think of technology and and where it's generally taken us, what do you think of AI, quantum, you know, platforms convergence? What does that future look like to you?

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Oh, you know, I saw it's probably good timing, but I was flipping, I was death scrolling earlier and flipping through um the LinkedIn feeds, and I saw the Elon Musk and Joe Rogan um podcast, and Elon was talking about um, you know, this world where AI will will be taking a lot of jobs and and um and I have to I I I have to agree with that to a certain extent, right? I have to agree that there are gonna be rudimentary things that people do, you know, people who have to sift through emails and find, you know, certain anomal like anomalies and data and stuff, stuff that a human uh uh would normally do that you could train AI to do. Those things are gonna change. They're gonna go away. They're gonna um even in my field, I'm seeing companies build their business around replacing the need for partners to do the wrench turning in a platform. I see the reality of that though happening in real time. And I listen to the analysts in these large financial companies, and I'm I'm seeing it all come together. And I don't think there's like a SaaS apocalypse. I don't think there is a um a folding of of everything like people are, you know, doomsday and uh about this. But I do think that we are going to see jobs change. What I recommend to people that are kind of stuck in this loop where they're watching all the the marketing that's so the way I see it is marketing is way ahead. Like on all fronts. I'm not just talking about one company, I'm talking on all fronts, marketing is way ahead. Look at what you can do with AI. Why do you need this when you could just just pay for a cloud subscription and get these things done, right? And then I see engineering way behind marketing trying to catch up. And and they're edging closer, and they're and and if they come together, then then I do worry a little bit, but I do see the reality of it. And so where what where do I think we're going? I think we're going into a new world. We're going, it's almost like the industrial revolution when we switch from horses to cars. You know, we've got now artificial intelligence that's actually intelligent enough to do some things. Um, I saw something even today where there are agents being built that are supervisory agents for the agents that are running. It's like it's such a weird concept, right? Because a lot of the arguments have been, well, if you have agents doing things, what keeps them in check? Well, it's got to be the human. It's got to be human logic. Well, but there's agents that they're training, you know, to do those things. Again, I hear the marketing, but I see the the actual technology in practice. And I think, I think we're a little far off from that, that, you know, doomsday. But I just encourage people to, I said this two years ago when I first saw generative AI hit the Service Now platform, and I started understanding it and started looking at large language models and understanding the technology a little deeper. And I would say now the skill of the 21st century is not how fast you can type or how many word processing tools you know, or how collaboration tools that you know. It's about prompt engineering. It's understanding how to communicate with a large language model or models, understand the different thought processes that go into that, even building the core of what a large language model needs. It's more prompts. It's, you know, the MD files, the things that are behind the scenes that are teaching the large language models what they need to do. You need to be that the human front that feeds that, right? And you need to understand that. So again, jobs will just change if you change with it. I think we're gonna see a lot of people leave technology and go back in time. I joke with my buddies and I'm like, hey, we probably need to buy some land and some tractors because we we probably need to get but break back into farming or something because when technology changes and some of these jobs change, people are gonna be looking for that. And and I will say, like, it's hmm, I don't have an answer. I am I'm a little fearful of it. I'm I'm cautious, let me put it this way, I'm cautiously optimistic about the future. I'm I'm gonna approach it with, I need to be prepared for whatever happens. If the technology catches up and we're actually replacing important jobs that feed into our economy. Uh, I saw again another LinkedIn such a great place for stuff like this, but it was like, I'll I'll try to give it the sentiment that it was, but it was like, hey, technologists, what's gonna happen when 90% of your customers don't have any jobs and they can't pay for the technology that you provide? It's like, you know, we all still have to make money. We live in a system where we have to think, yeah, we have to make money to eat. So it's something that we have to be thinking about and we have to be embrace it and realize what it is. You can't just sit in the corner and go, oh, AI is never gonna do anything, right? And I do have a prediction. I've I've predicted, I've watched my kids and I've watched them interact with it. If it's wrong long enough, there will be, I think there will be a generation of people who will divorce technology, who will just prefer to be without it and just do things the old-fashioned way. You got to think about how society works and operates. So I think the the larger things that happen, like the big enterprise grade processes that have to go on. Think about airlines, think about our homeland security, think about nursing and doctors and lawyers, like all the big things that like that are just the machines running behind the behind the scenes, those things are gonna can continue to embrace AI and make things faster, cheaper, you know. Again, speed market. But like all the smaller things, I think we're gonna figure it out. Like I think there's we're gonna figure out a way to work around the reality that AI is doing a lot and it will do a lot more. But again, we can't just ignore it and say, well, I don't have to learn it because it's gonna go away. But I do think the pendulum will swing. I think society will, it'll, it'll be, you know, a little bit of the old thing, and people that don't understand it will continue to not and they'll figure things out, right? So I don't not totally scared, but I'm I'm I'm a realist about what's happening around me for sure.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

I I think security and trust play a big part. You know, people don't trust what they're looking at to be real. You could see people divorce the technology and just I'm not gonna look at it no more. If I can't trust, I'm really looking at Jeremy right now, then that's just crazy.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

Yeah, we think a lot.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

But but you know, it's just I think there's some levels there that they'll say, wait a minute, I'm out. You know, I don't want I you always hear people say, Well, I divorced or I got off of Facebook for a month, you know, now they're back, of course. But you know, I think there's gonna be some of that where people are gonna reject things because there's gonna be too much of it. And the media and everything, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

I I think I divorced Facebook a long time ago. I don't need that in my life. I want real connections with people, you know.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

I keep Facebook for seeing family and friends from afar, see family pictures. Yeah, and that's pretty much it. You know, otherwise everything else is trash and but I don't I don't know. Anyway, it's just I think I think you're right. I think uh it's gonna change our lives, but just we've had the industrial revolution. It'll be exponentially larger, whatever this coming is, but it's the same kind we've been through these cycles, and we'll figure out what it looks like on the other end of it.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

Well, for now, the beauty is that humans can turn it off. You know, it is still technology that runs based on a finger pushing a button, but you know, pay attention to Elon. He's been he's been ahead of a lot of things. Look at all the things he's touched, and he's now switching gears and not no longer making Model X and the Model S, and he's building robots. Just I'm just saying, I mean, we've seen the movies. Hollywood, I mean, it's kind of scary to go back and look at how many times Hollywood's been right about things. You almost wonder if, you know, we see the UFOs. I'm gonna go way off on a tangent here, guys. See, you see the UFOs, right? They're starting to release some of that stuff. And it's like, oh, there is alternate life. There are people from their people, whatever, their alternate life on other planets. Who's to say who's to say that like we're experiencing like some of that, right? That's like here, the these futurists that are it's like, where did this even come from? Like, how did this even happen? You know, but we're evolving, and and that's I think the lesson here is is that as humans evolve and as things evolve, we we're resilient. I mean, look at what all humans have been through and what we've survived. We are resilient and I'm and I don't worry that that we're gonna come up with a plan to be able to address the the ever-changing landscape that we're in.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

I think uh it at least for now, it is a tool. Tomorrow, it's going to be a tool that enables tools, and I do have some of that caution, but I'm really looking forward to a day when a robot will do the dishes and laundry for me. I cannot wait. To um careful. To kind of well, yeah. Okay, found knock on wood. So if we think about leaders in technology right now, there's the allocation of capital. Do I invest in this? Do I invest in that? I'm behind, I'm so far behind. Oh, and everything just changed again. So now I'm really behind. And there's pressure on that decision-making process. We you've got AI pivoting, you have workforce transformation. Would you have a message, or what might your message be to those leaders who are going through that right now, trying to find some kind of footing that are under that pressure?

SPEAKER_01 36:02

One thing I've seen from the C-suite a lot is they'll follow suit, right? They'll say, and and we do this at a state level. You know, one state does one thing, passes certain laws, then they all start looking at it and they're all, well, we used to do that too, right? I I would encourage folks to look at their business, look at what their needs are, and address those needs with the technology that they have that's available to them. And I, and sure, AI is a big part of a dynamic change and shift in the workforce, and it is potentially, right, a saver in some areas. But I just would encourage folks to not, and it's not even just as a sweet C-suite, but anyone, don't let the pendulum swing too far one way or the other, right? One example I can give just down to a nerdy technology level is is, you know, we've got, I've had in the banking industry, I've had folks come to me and say, hey, we want agents. And then, of course, human-centered design guy, I'm like, and an architect. I'm like, why? What do you need an agent for? Well, we want, you know, agents to be able to do this and be able to do that. I'm like, well, have you ever can like have you ever looked at using a large language model as a skill to like answer questions, like allow the human to continue to be a part of the process? I'll give an example in like loan origination at a bank. There are standard operating procedures that says, hey, if a if a credit or if a you know um a creditor or someone, a borrower, let's call them that borrower wants to borrow money, their your credit score should be this. It should be, you know, it's it's all deterministic things. It's or a range, right? Well, you could document, and then a human doesn't have to look at that, right? That could just be a checkbox, right? As Bill McDermott would always say, it's the soul crushing work that we want to get rid of. It's the stuff that humans don't even like to do that we want to get rid of. So in the C-suite, that's I would recommend starting there, right? Instead of just taking a pendulum swing approach and it's like, hey, we're gonna get rid of the entire help desk and and we're, you know, we're not gonna have them anymore. It's like, how do we bite-size that? How do we bring that in and pieces and take care of the things that truly do take up too much time? Does that mean there'll probably be staff reduction? Maybe, right? Or that staff gets trained up to help empower the technology that's making their business better. Doesn't always have to end in that in a reduction. Although, again, what you see is hey, this company laid off 4,000 today. This company laid off 6,000 today, this company, you know, people don't understand that that they'll probably hire back at least half of those people. Right. Or that that the timing was probably because, and listen, I worked in major corporations, I won't name which one, but I there were any given Monday, I'd come in and there's a new layoff, right? And then I would see those people right back in the front door six weeks later because they got a higher paying job and they're enjoying their severance package because it was uh the timing of the quarter. It was like, hey, we got to lay off and we gotta we gotta get our books balanced right, and then we go, we're gonna hire some people back, right? It's a game. And and people, they freak out and they think that it's all related. And I and I would just say, like, again, to leaders, like, don't let the pendulum swing too far. Invest in the technology because that's where we're going. I mean, it it is a natural state of where we're at. AI is making a huge difference. And I'm excited as someone who has, you know, a medical and uncurable medical diagnosis. I would love to see one day that it's addressed, that they figure out what's going on. And I think with artificial intelligence, what no better way, something that can compute, you know, magnitudes more than a human brain can that process the data and understand different data points and then start drawing conclusions and then allow a scientist to be able to test that. Obviously, we got to test that, right? But those are the kind of things that I want to see change. I want to see life better because of it, not well, businesses, let's figure out how we can save more money because we can't forget that we live in an economy. We live in a society that depends on people making money and spending that money. It's spending the money. It like, you know, it's got to continue to evolve. And so that's just what I would encourage is not get in such a hurry to, you know, save money and and and really feed into this engine that is AI is replacing every human, because I don't I don't think that's true. And I and I don't experience that from the leaders that I work with. I do see that there is a reduction in workforce that's doing that soul-crushing work. But again, I've seen leaders also reallocate and teach those folks new things because they're people that they want on board and because they're saving money in other areas, they're able to do that. But again, what happens is they all follow suit. They all see their buddies or other companies doing it, and they're like, hey, we probably need to do that too. And I would just encourage you to look at your business and make sure that it makes sense and then pick the right level of artificial intelligence focus that you would go with to make your business better.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

So my next question you answered, I'm almost say the question, but I think you answered it. Is there a leadership mistake you see repeatab repeatedly done that's avoidable? And I think it's that move of laying off or making too many shifts and moves too quickly that you got to kind of backtrack and figure, oh, wait, man, this is not what I really thought it was. So that's one thing. But how do you stay grounded personally when you're like in the trench, like when the stakes and the noise are both at maximum levels? Like how, you know, that's what these sea levels are seeing, right? The pressures. I've got AI, people say, I gotta use AI, I gotta save money, I gotta, you know, bring up our stock, you know, portfolio with our with our shareholders, things like that. Or and but I got people I gotta take care of. I mean, how do you how how is it that you balance those things? I mean, what do you personally think of that?

SPEAKER_01 42:06

Yeah, personally, um, you know, I take a step back and I've often posted, well, not often, but I posted it a couple of times on LinkedIn is that, you know, I my mom taught me early on, if I love what I do and I do what I love, I'll never work a day in my life. And I and I'm proud to say that even in the stressful times, I haven't worked in a long time. I really love what I do. Um I love solving problems. I love the technology that I I solve it with. And so, but when I take a step, I have a healthy relationship with work. I take a step back and focus on my family and and what I'm grounded in is my faith. And so if it weren't for my faith and and belief in that there's there's a better plan for me than Jeremy can come up with, then I would, I don't know what kind of world of hurt, you know, psychologically I would be in. And then my family, that that keeps, they keep me grounded as well. I'm involved in my son's sports, I'm involved in my daughter's activities, sports, dance, softball. I'm a head coach head coach, assistant coach, whatever the year brings, you know, whatever I need to do. And I love doing those things. And so I because I know when I'm dead and gone, like if I were to die tomorrow, my company would continue on without me. Yeah, some people might miss me and they might send flowers and tell my wife, you know, what a loser I was. I don't know. But my family's gonna be the one that's gonna be standing by my graveside, and they're gonna be the ones looking at pictures and missing dad and figuring out what they're gonna keep, what they're gonna sell. You know, that they're the ones that have the memories. And so for me, that's what I'm grounded in, man. The jobs are gonna come and go. I don't, I just try not to worry about that. I just like my mom said, do what you love, love what you do. You never work a day in your life. And for me personally, the Lord will provide. And I've never when When I made the decision, going back to kind of back to my origin story, when I made the decision to start my family with my wife, we both worked and I knew she wanted to be a stay-at-home mom. And when she came to me and said, hey, you know, Ellie's on the way, our daughter, she's on the way. And I I think I'm gonna want to stay at home when I go on maternity leave. I was like, oh, like for a couple months. She's like, no, permanently. And I was like, oh, ooh, ooh. So I prayed. I was like, oh man. So I started looking at the budget and I was like negative $10 a month. And listen, we're we don't, we've never lived an extravagant life. We live like within our means, um, sometimes to the limit, but definitely within our means. And at that moment, I was like, I prayed. I was like, you God, you got to provide. And I'm here to tell you that I know like from that moment on, 15 years later, he's provided. So again, going back to what am I grounded in? I'm grounded in something that is far more way beyond me, because I don't deserve anything but like the worst. But I feel like I've been given a lot of opportunities and I'm really blessed for that. So that's it, man. It's it's it's family and and God for me. I agree with you very much so.

SPEAKER_02 45:15

I mean, I've I've grown up and trying, I always tell myself I'm doing this for the family, but I was working hard at a couple firms and put all the time in, and I miss some of my girls in their life. Like I coached my my my middle daughter's basketball team. I wanted to swim meets, but I miss some. So I look back on it and every once in a while I'll tell them I'm sorry. I thought I was doing the right things, but I just didn't put I put time in, but I didn't put enough time in. You know what I mean? And I had the best wife in the world who backs me in everything I ever did and supports me and grew these three marvelous daughters, you know, up into women. And so now it's the grandkids. So now I I've God gave me a second chance at this. So I got the granddaughter and grandson. I ain't missing shit.

SPEAKER_01 46:02

Well, you know how many times my mother, my mother has apologized to me, and I'm like, mom, like, she apologizes to me like I had a bad childhood. I'm like, I never needed for anything. Sure. Did I want I did I want the latest Nintendo or the latest Ginkko jeans? And I'll admit I was a Gink-Ko baggy wearing jeans guy. I switched from Jinko's a Tommy Hill figure. I bounced back. I didn't know whether I was a preppy boy or a punk. I couldn't figure it out. Um, I wanted for a lot, but I never needed for anything. And when my mom apologized, I'm like, you gotta stop apologizing because you taught me the grit and the grind that goes into life. You taught me what life's all about. I worry for my children who have never needed or wanted for anything. And I've got to figure out how to backpedal and and change a little bit of that. I feel like I've I've taught them the lessons and we've done entrepreneurial stuff and like taught them, you know, the value of money and all that stuff, but and how to earn a dollar. But I'm telling you, man, for anybody out there that feels like even the slightest bit of regret, it's life, man. We we learn, we grow up, and and yes, some things could could have been better. But again, how do we how do we have character? How do we grow if we don't ever experience any pain, if we don't exp ever experience any challenges? So kind of even back to your question, it's like, how do you stay grounded when things around you are falling down? Sometimes you just gotta embrace the suck and and and eat your way through that crap sandwich you've been handed and just deal with it and learn some lessons. I will tell you, I've prayerfully considered about every major decision that I've done in my Christian life. And there have been times where I've like, I've straight up looked up, like, God, like, am I going through a Job moment? Like, am I going through a moment here where I got to learn a lesson? Like, because I'm I'm all ears. Like, this sucks. And what did I do? And why did I make this decision? And sometimes it's like, because I need you to experience this and I need you to, there's things I need you to learn. And so I say, like, and again, that goes back to my faith. I'm grounded in that and I look at everything through that lens and and uh don't plan of that changing. It's kept me, it's kept me sane through the tough times. And and I'm listening not perfect, and I've worried and I've struggled with anxiety before and woke up in the middle of the night like in a panic, like you know, all that stuff, gone through all that stuff. But at the end of the day, there's nothing I can't change tomorrow. I'm gonna, I gotta live in the moment and embrace every moment. And as much as I try to adjust my future the way I want it, it's like I think it's like there are certain things I can control and certain things I can't. And for the things that I can't, and that's why when I look at AI, like again, I'm cautious. I'm I know I gotta read the tea leaves, I gotta see what's going on. But at the end of the day, I can't do anything about it. It's out there. Now, how do I be a part of it? Now I want to be a part of the change and be a part of the difference that's happening with it. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:07

Before we jump to the lighting round, I I think one of the things I want to share was like this, that what you discussed, this podcast to me is sort of that same thing to me as well. I've had, I've been blessed in my career, in my life, with meeting great people along the way in my career. And we've had various of those people on. We've had new people to me, but maybe someone that's still new, like Matt Godson. I never knew him before, but met a great person. You're new, newer to us as well. And you know, and I've but I've also had some people I've known for 20 plus years, like Matt Coteney and Andy Hickey and and all those guys, and we bring them on as I get a chance to talk to people that have taught me millions of things in my career. And I think I'm blessed just in this. I guess here's Steel. I mean, Steele and I, we met what, 15 years ago.

SPEAKER_00 49:57

Man, don't see the math.

SPEAKER_02 49:59

Yeah. So it's I feel this is like like you said, just a balancing that, you know, staying grounded. Yeah. This is also that way for me too. Is this this podcast is built that way. Just we talk about leadership, talk about personal, we talk about technology. We get into geekness sometimes, but a lot of it has to do with just being a human again and empathy and understanding where you really are, truly, and who's around you. And I think that's that's if you say faith is huge. And I think this you just gotta balance that stuff. But all right, lightning round. Best best piece of advice you ever got five words or less.

SPEAKER_01 50:35

Choose joy. Like that. I like that. It is tech round. Go ahead. It's lightning round. I forgot.

SPEAKER_00 50:41

Yeah, right. Biggest tech myth that needs to die.

SPEAKER_01 50:44

The technology fixes everything.

SPEAKER_02 50:48

All right, it's gonna be hard for you. The green shoes origin story, one sentence.

SPEAKER_01 50:54

Go. I'm in Vegas where everybody loves lights, and what better place to wear a light up something?

SPEAKER_00 51:00

Nice. You get one phone call to any tech mind, living or not. Who are you calling?

SPEAKER_01 51:08

Elon Musk. Yep, hands down.

SPEAKER_02 51:10

All right, last one. AI is going to blank the IT industry. Fill in the blank one word.

SPEAKER_01 51:16

Can I go, can I retract that? It would be, it would be, it would be Elon, but uh, but I'm gonna go back to actually kind of part of his origin story is I would want to talk to Nikola Tesla. I was gonna say Tesla. Tesla. Because I've read that story so many times. Yeah. And I and I see a guy who invented wireless charging, and then I see him completely demolished. Like I would, I would want to see him at the end of that and understand like what happened. I think my conspiracy theorist in me thinks I know what happened, but like I want to understand, like, because that dude, phenomenal mind, and and what he invented way back then took forever. And it just I would like to understand that a little bit more. The real story, not what I've been told. So yeah, I agree with you.

SPEAKER_02 52:07

Yeah. All right. AI is going to what the IT industry change.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

Is there another word you can pick? Nah. I mean, it's gonna it's gonna change, but it's not, I don't think it's gonna destroy the IT industry. I think it's just gonna change it.

SPEAKER_00 52:21

All right. As we wrap it up here, I want to express my genuine gratitude and how grateful we are for your time with us today, Jeremy. It's been a treat. It's been a real pleasure. Thank you for sharing your origin story, some of those struggles, just a little sliver of that part of your life and showing us out as much of about as much perseverance as it is about sacrifice, the green shoes, the impact, all of it is a testament to someone who has showed up for more than just themselves.

SPEAKER_02 52:54

Yeah, and thank you for reminding us that the human olive and just doesn't go away when the technology gets bigger. You know, if anything, it it matters more. As always, this has been the Wired Garages Pops. Thank you for taking a peek under the hood with us in this episode with Jeremy Duncan. If you found this episode insightful, follow us so we can bring other exciting guests on, sharing real insights and keeping the conversation on it honest. Until the next time, stay out.

SPEAKER_00 53:20

Cheers.